The dark saying of no good deed goes unpunished is reigning over at APE. He posted his loathing of being virtually stalked and the crowd went wild. People took his head off for his helpful opinion (and one I mostly agree with–I say track who goes to your site, but don’t freak out your targets by telling them you know they’ve been on your site, etc.). He offered what he thought was helpful info, and some people bit his head off for it.
Heather Morton gets some sometimes too. In fact, everyone I know who offers help gets kicked in the teeth fairly regularly for it, and it sucks.
Now, I could understand going after me–this is how I make my living and challenging what I have to offer could be seen as acceptable under the concept of “prove you know what you’re talking about, Lady, or I’m not buying what you’re offering!” but even then it should be done respectfully.
Unfortunately, too many photographers out there are getting downright nasty about disagreeing. I’ll tell you flat out, it hurts to offer opinions and help, with all the best of intentions, only to get bitch-slapped for it.
But let’s say you just don’t give a shit about hurting the other person–you’ve got an opinion and damn it, you’ve got every right to express it! Okay, fine, yes, you certainly do have that right. Using that right, well, that’s your choice and I’m telling you that sometimes it’s a bad one. Forget about hurting other people, you are hurting yourselves with some of these posts.
You think only photographers read these blogs? Hell no. Your clients/targets do. And every time you sound like an aggressive jerk, you are hurting your reputation with your clients/targets. It’s hard enough to build a decent reputation–to get people to recognize your name enough to want to look at your work and call you for the next great project–why screw that up just to vent a bit on some blog?
And this stuff lives forever on the ‘net. People aren’t getting jobs or getting into grad school, etc., because employers/administrators are googling applicants and when they find negative stuff–boom, no gig (fwiw, pictures from Spring Break are particularly damaging for regularly employed folks).
So please, learn to write more gracefully, compassionately, and diplomatically or just shut up when you disagree with someone on their blog. Better yet, take a step back and think “Why is s/he writing this? Maybe there is some truth in there I need to learn.”
Leslie,
I was one of those who criticized the nature of three posts that came back-to-back-to-back on the nature of self-promotion.
I don’t know anything about any ‘bitch-slapping’ as you put it.
But I do think there is a conversation going on here and that photographers, for better or for worse, don’t hesitate to bare all. One reason is that there are so few people who are sitting on the other side of the fence and who remain in direct and oh so public communication with photographers.
You’re one of them. And I applaud you for it.
On the other hand, I do believe that things are changing in the world of photography and publishing. So fast in fact, that the points that you might make or that Rob might make or that Heather might make are transitory.
For one, I look at the big picture and I see a future where photographers are their own publishers. They create their own projects and they pursue the ones they think are worthwhile.
At the same time, photographers who manage to survive the upcoming turbulence, will know who they are marketing their work to, why they are marketing to them and how they will eventually sell their projects to them.
What’s taking place NOW is a transformative experience and there will be/are bumps in the road.
Those who decide that its worth talking about may not feel the love in the short term. But I’m certain those who decide to engage photographers constructively, like you have done for years now, will be in a unique position in the future.
But what the fuck do I know?
In light of a recent dialogue I’ve had with the art editor (& ex commercial art buyer) of a UK consumer mag this all rings very true. It was a insightful and constructuive conversation centered on the image choices I’d made for my site and book. I have his permission to post the whole thing (anonymously) when/if my own blog goes back up, but here’s some snips that are particularly relevant to your post…
“Nowadays photographers have become very disconnected from their clients and as such seem to have no idea what they really want. It might surprise you to hear that you are the first and only photographer who ever called me here to ask If I was happy with the shoot.” …He’s been in the biz for eight years and currently commissions around 6 features a month!
“…it has given me an invaluable inside look into how top agencies and publishers view and deal with their creative talent. And I genuinely don’t mind sharing this as there is a lot of misunderstanding and mistrust between both sides of the camp. As for putting my views on a blog, I have no problems with that as long as you keep my name off it (due to my current position). But from past experience I can tell you many photographers will immediately see it as a personal attack on themselves and get hostile very quickly.”
I was actually surprised to hear this and a little sceptical, but then looking at that APE post … OMG it’s true!
In the other line of biz I worked in before photography we understood that acquiring and then reacting to our customers point-of-view was critical to our success as a vendor. There were no blogs offering this info for free so we asked for it. All the time. Even with buyers I’d dealt with for 16 years. Understanding their business and then working out how you can facilitate it is more than half the ‘battle’ … IMHO.
Oh, if you *really* want to see ingratitude disguised as bitch-slapping, try telling a photographer – especially one who’s been doing it for a while – that they have an incorrect understanding of the law. Bonus points for doing this in an attempt to make them understand that what they are doing is opening them to *massive liability.* You wouldn’t believe – well, yes, you would believe how stupid they get, since you’ve been there. You and Carolyn Wright and I ought to write some kind of a book.
When this subject is raised I often think of a line which someone told me is from “The War of the Roses,” although I have not seen it. A very expensive lawyer is trying to tell somebody something, and they don’t want to hear it. He comments:
“Normally it costs two hundred dollars an hour to find out what I think about something. When I try to tell you for free, I suggest that you listen.”
Obviously it needs to be adjusted for inflation – my outside IP specialists are now mostly in the $400/hr range. But the sentiment is still dead on.
Anyway, keep up the good fight. Some of us *do* listen to you.
M
It’s no wonder with all the backlashing and shit talking on blogs by photographers that so many prospects don’t answer the phone when a photographer is calling. Whats more messed up is that Leslie and Rob tell it like it is because they really care about this industry and people shit talk.
It’s lame and juvenile on the part of the photographers. You may have objections to what others say but we photographers need to be professional and not be ready to fight every time someone says there might be a better way.
Leslie – you hit the nail on the head. I posted about it on my blog as well and I saw Heather had a great post addressing some of the promo issues and info with her piece, Ask an Art Buyer: Promotion.
I can’t tell you how taken aback I was by some of the comments. I understand it’s confusing and information criss-crosses the contradiction line. If I ever got nasty on a corporate company’s blog or posted something negative on mine about a client… I guarantee you I would not have a job nor would I ever get one …. I’d have to go back to bartending for a living.
I think that this was very well said. Obviously these people that feel the need to take any opportunity to bash those who are only trying to help are not thinking about the fact that without these resources they would be in the dark on a lot of issues. I also think you made a very good point about how these bitchy public displays are very damaging to ones reputation.